Musicality World

Did you know there’s a musical skill which everyone can already do, and yet only a tiny fraction of musicians are actually intentionally using it daily… even though it’s a massive booster for your musicality and all your music learning!

In this episode, we’re going to peek inside the chapter of the new musicality book to reveal what that skill is and what it can do for you.

So I just realised I forgot to take down my sticky whiteboard.

I have this whiteboard stuck to the wall. It’s this special paper where you can basically make a whiteboard anywhere you want to. It’s my favourite thing! And any time we’re deep into a big project here at Musical U, I tend to have these whiteboards plastered all over every wall of my office with various things scribbled on them.

But if you can see it there, that’s actually the one for the musicality book. So on there are listed all the remaining bits and pieces that need to be done for the book, like final editing passes and diagrams that are still missing, and formatting and layout and all that stuff. We have the cover now, which is exciting, and we’re just doing the final bits and pieces. So there’s a bunch of tasks there, and then there’s all of the launch activities building up to the release in September. So just kind of laying out everything that is still lined up to be done.

And actually, that reminds me, there’s one thing I really could use your help with. In that list that a list of launch activities. I really want to do a new interview series to celebrate the launch of the book.

And what I want to do is bring in experts on everything covered in the book. So obviously, like the book represents our canonical information, expertise, wisdom, knowledge, techniques, all that good stuff from Musical U on each of these topics.

But if you know us, you know one of our four pillar beliefs is “Better Together”. And part of that is this principle of collaborating with other music educators and making sure we’re bringing you not just our stuff, but the very best stuff from anyone who could help in your musical journey.

And so in that spirit, I really want to bring in a whole host of people on each of these topics and talk with them about those topics and get their take on the book and ask what they would add or change or suggest or compliment with what we present.

And anyway, I would love your help with, I’d love, love, love your help with who I should interview. So, as you can imagine, we’ll go to our friendly faces on a lot of these topics. The people we know and love in the music education world, but we can.. I’m going to talk through the chapter list in a second. And as I read through these topics, I would love you to just think about, like, who would be the person you would most want to hear me interview in depth on that topic?

Let’s jump over to the document.

There we go. So we’ll dive into the chapter in just a minute, but just to give the lay of the land, give you orientation, the book is split into three parts.

Part one is all about foundational skills. Part two is kind of core listening skills, and part three is applied uses of those skills.

So to go through in detail, part one begins with talking about what is musicality, what does it mean to become more musical? Then we talk about musical mindset, these ways of thinking that we found can really be the difference maker for any musician. Today’s sneak peek chapter, if you didn’t guess already from my teasing intro, is going to be on audiation. Then we already had a couple of inside the book episodes on singing, which is a biggie, a real foundational skill for us here at Musical U. Active listening, so can you analyse and dissect and really pick apart music when you hear it? And then practice and superlearning, all of the accelerated learning techniques that we cover in things like our super learning practice plan that can let you get more out of every minute you spend learning music.

So that’s part one. And those are kind of the foundational skills, which then are woven throughout all the rest of the book. So once you’ve got those things kind of in your toolkit, you can have much more success with anything else you apply yourself to in music.

Part two is focused on ear training, so it opens with a chapter on ear training, comparing the kind of traditional approaches with the integrated ear training method we use here at Musical U. Then a few chapters on relative pitch. So an overview chapter. And then we cover three types of building block for relative pitch: solfa, intervals, and chords and progressions. Then a couple of chapters on rhythm, often overlooked in ear training and developing your instinct for music, but a really significant one.

And then in part three, we take all of those foundational skills, all of those ear skills, and dive into things like improvisation, playing by ear, songwriting, expression, and performance.

So as I went through those, did anyone pop into your mind? Like, who would you love to hear me interview on singing or on relative pitch? Or playing by ear? Who would you love to hear me talk to about performance? And I want to put together a really great interview series, so please do put your ideas in the comments or send an email to hello@musicalitynow.com and I would love to hear your suggestions.

So on to today’s chapter. I’m going to read through just the beginning bit of our audiation chapter, and hopefully, depending on how familiar you are with this concept, this could be kind of mind-blowing for you. If you’re one of our members at Musical U, you’ll be familiar with the idea. You might have put it to use already, but hopefully this will really flesh out what it is, why it matters, and what it can really do for you in your musical journey.

So, audiation.

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In this chapter we’ll cover a core skill which permeates the entirety of your musicality. It’s a skill which many overlook and most don’t think to actively develop.

Yet the more you improve this skill, the easier and more effective all of your musicality training will become. Audiation is a word originally coined by the music education pioneer Edwin Gordon as part of his Music Learning Theory approach. Within that system, it has a precise technical meaning.

However, it has also come to be used more informally, synonymous with auralize and meaning simply to imagine hearing music in your head. At Musical U, we use this more informal definition because it provides a useful catch all for this broad and versatile skill.

So what is audiation? Simply put, audiation is the ability to hear music in your head, sometimes called inner hearing or hearing in your mind’s ear, analogous to seeing in your mind’s eye.

It’s the aural equivalent of visualisation. And just like visualisation, there is a whole spectrum of ability levels from being able to conjure up only very basic imagined sounds through to a full rich playback in your mind.

Unlike visualisation, there is also a time component to audiation. As we’ll be exploring below, one aspect of your audiation skill is the length of a musical phrase or excerpt which you can comfortably conjure up. This is closely related to your musical memory.

Another useful way to describe audiation is “thinking in sound” or “thinking in music”. Just like with spoken language, there is an imagined equivalent: hearing words and sentences in your head as you think.

We can develop the ability to think in music by hearing it in our mind on demand. Below, well look at the benefits of audiation and how it connects to various other musical skills and activities, with a particular highlight on singing. Then we’ll explore some ways you can assess and actively develop your audiation abilities.

Audiation is a powerful skill to develop, but it’s important to know this isn’t a new skill to learn from scratch. In fact, you already audiate frequently! Any time you get a song stuck in your head, or you remember a song in your mind, or if I asked you to, imagine how “happy birthday” goes. As soon as you can hear music in your head, you are audiating.

So although we’ll be covering lots of ways to improve your ability to audiate, don’t feel intimidated or overwhelmed at all. It’s an ability you already have. We’re just looking to refine and extend it.

Developing your audiation has a positive effect on a wide range of musicality skills, and it can significantly increase your overall enjoyment and appreciation of music. Although we’ll be making plenty of concrete suggestions for incorporating audiation into your musicality training, for example as part of our Listen-Engage-Express framework for playing by ear, it’s valuable to keep in mind that audiation is so fundamental a part of your musicality that it can and should be part of almost every musical activity you do.

That’s why we’re featuring this chapter so early in the book. The more you become aware of the role of audiation and the more you develop your audiation abilities, the more you’ll see it is relevant and involved throughout everything you do in music. So even though we’ll cover some specifics below, please keep in mind that there are no fixed and firm boundaries to audiation.

Benefits and connections

Musical memory

An easy way to start thinking about and developing your audiation skills is with musical memory. Think of a piece of music you’re learning to play or just your favorite song. Stop reading or listening for a moment and see if you can conjure up that music in your mind now.

Can you hear how it goes? How much of it can you remember? How vividly do you hear it? For example, do you hear just the rough shape of the melody? Or do you hear a full, detailed musical arrangement when you’re just starting out?

Don’t be discouraged if you find your musical memory is surprisingly lacking. It can be a shock to realize that a piece of music you thought you knew well is actually quite difficult to play back in your mind without looking at the notation or having heard a recording of it recently. On the other hand, you may find that there are certain songs or pieces that you have a clear mental imprint of, and you can press play in your mind and hear it almost as vividly as if you were listening on headphones.

Musicians often worry about having a “bad musical memory”. We’ll be covering memorisation in detail in the chapter on practice and superlearning, but for now, it’s helpful to note that memorising how to play music is distinct from memorising the sound of the music.

Improving your audiation, and improving your musical memory go hand in hand. And even if your focus is remembering how to play the music, you’ll find that having a clear, detailed, reliable “mental representation” of the sound of that music is actually a huge component of being able to remember how to play it. More on this in the section on mental play below.

Musical imagination

Your ability to conjure up great-sounding music in the world depends entirely on your ability to conjure up great-sounding music in your head.

Footnote: at least it does if you’re following an improvisation approach which focuses on bringing the music out from inside you, like the Expansive Creativity framework you’ll learn about in the chapter on improvisation. There are other methods which rely on memorised vocabulary and strict patterns and can operate with zero audiation. However, for that very reason, these approaches tend to produce limited, robotic, generic, and same-y sounding improvisation. More on that in the improvisation chapter.

Audiation can be used purely to play back existing music you’ve heard or played. However, it can also be usefully combined with creativity frameworks, providing you with a kind of musical playground in your mind where you can experiment with new musical ideas.

Again, the language analogy is helpful here. Sometimes we do speak without thinking first, but can you imagine being able to speak a language without the ability to form sentences or think of words in your mind? Even if we’re not preparing sentences and hearing them in our head before speaking them, it’s clear that the ability to conjure up original sentences on the fly is directly dependent on our brain’s ability to imagine language and think in words. Similarly, if you want to be able to express original musical ideas out loud, you’ll want to develop the ability to create original musical ideas in your mind first.

Relative pitch

This connection between being able to remember music and being able to audiate it easily and vividly also has implications for skills like playing by ear and improvising.

To put it simply, it’s hard to play a song by ear if you can’t actually remember how it goes! It’s also really powerful for your sense of relative pitch, because when your ear is trying to figure out the distances between notes, a lot of what you end up doing is kind of mental gymnastics and imagining oh, is it this interval or that interval, this note or that note? When we talk about improving your ability to audiate, one major focus is the accuracy of your sense of relative pitch in your mind.

This is a topic we’ll cover in depth later in the book, but for now just be aware that your ability to judge the pitch distances between notes in music, called relative pitch, is crucial, and it all starts in your mind. The more accurately you can hear the notes and their relationships in your mind, the easier it will be to process and recognise them when you hear them in the real world.

For example, a lot of musicians think they can’t sing because when they try, the pitches don’t come out correctly. Often it turns out that their ability to match pitch and their vocal control (covered in the next chapter) is actually fine, but they don’t have a clear mental representation of the pitches they intend to sing, meaning they can’t audiate the melody.

This is a bit like trying to hit a bullseye without having a clue where the dartboard is! You can have the best aim in the world, but if you don’t actually know where the target is, of course you’re going to struggle.

Which leads us on to…

Audiation and singing

Even if you don’t consider yourself “a singer”, there is nothing that compares with how directly singing is tied to your sense of music and your ability to express yourself musically. That’s why we’ll be devoting a whole chapter to the topic.

When it comes to audiation, singing has a particular significance. Singing and audiation are really two sides of the same coin. Audiation can be seen as singing in your head and singing can be considered audiating out loud.

Just like audiation, singing can become a kind of universal master tool which you can apply in a wide variety of musical activities to help you better learn, improve and perform. We’ll be exploring the connection between singing and audiation more in the chapter on playing by ear and looking how exactly you can use the two together.

In short, you can think of both as singing stepping stones between the music you have inside and the music you express outside.

So even if right now you have no desire to sing in front of anybody, the combination of using audiation and using singing as ways to better process, understand and express music is something you will wonder how you ever did without.

Audiation bridges ear and instrument

For a musician who has been focused exclusively on the Hands part of their H4 musicality (meaning Head, Hands, Hearing and Heart), one huge step forwards is starting to make connections to their Hearing.

This can mean learning to play by ear or improvise, but it can also be as simple as starting to make sure you actually really learn the sound of each piece you play, not just the instructions for which buttons to press when on your instrument.

There are a couple of simple exercises shared below to help you get started with this. You’ll find it makes a remarkable difference to have a vivid mental representation of the music you’re playing, that is, the ability to audiate it well. Suddenly it becomes easier to memorise, easier to play, easier to be expressive with. You’re actually getting inside the music rather than just reproducing notes robotically. It all starts with audiation.

Audiation bridges sound and notation

When you develop your audiation in tandem with the relative pitch and rhythm skills covered later in the book, you develop the ability to look at written notation and immediately hear in your head how it should sound.

This is particularly exciting for singers who can begin to sight-sing music they’ve never heard before. It’s also exciting for instrumentalists, since you no longer need to play through a piece dot by dot to find out how it sounds. You can simply look at the page, hear it in your mind, and know exactly what you’re aiming for when you pick up your instrument.

This connection works the other way around, too. When you develop both your audiation and your mental models of pitch and rhythm, you’ll be able to hear music in your mind, whether you’re remembering something you heard or conjuring up something new and write it down in notation without needing to hunt and peck for notes on an instrument first.

Audiation boosts enjoyment and creativity

As with so much of musicality, ultimately it all comes back to enjoyment. Improving your audiation to the point of having a really vivid musical imagination allows you to hear beloved pieces almost as if they’re playing back in your mind. This brings music to life and enhances your listening experience.

We’ll be exploring the skill of active listening in the dedicated chapter, and it’s another skill which is intimately tied to audiation. The more vividly you can imagine music in your mind, the more alert you’ll be to details in the music you hear and play. Likewise, the more sophisticated and detailed your appreciation of music you hear and play, the easier it will be to hear those same depths and details in your musical imagination.

You’ll find that audiation becomes a really great way to assess your active listening abilities, and vice-versa, simply by checking, can I play back in my head everything I think I heard?

This also has a clear knock-on effect to your musical creativity. The more restricted your musical imagination, the simpler your musical creative output will be. The more sophisticated your musical imagination becomes, the easier it will be to create rich, varied, and interesting music yourself.

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So that’s the beginning of this chapter on audiation. From there, it goes into defining three levels of audiation ability and then presenting a bunch of different exercises and activities you can use to gradually develop your audiation skills more and more.

So it’s a really crucial chapter because this is, we all do it a little bit in some way, day to day, just hearing music, remembering music. But when you really develop it, you really cultivate it and you integrate it into all of the other activities we cover in the book. It’s just, it’s one of those mastertools that really amplifies and accelerates everything else.

So that’s that chapter. As I said, it goes on to define the three levels and present you ways to develop your audiation skills. And I’m so excited to get this book into your hands and you can dive in and try these things for yourself and develop these skills.

Do remember to share your interviewee ideas! Like I said at the beginning, I want to do an interview series on all of these topics, so I would love to hear from you in the comments or an email to hello@musicalitynow.com, who should I interview on all of the topics covered in the book? Who would be your dream interviewee to hear on the show?

I’m excited to get back to some of those longform interviews that you may know this show was based on. The first 200-plus episodes, a lot of them were in depth interviews with world leading experts and I’m psyched to get back into the swing of that and bring some incredible people to you on the show.

That’s it for this one. We’ll be back on Saturday with our next Coaches Corner episode.

Until then, cheers! And go make some music!

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Christopher: When you play music, does it feel like the music is out there somewhere… or does it feel like it’s inside you?

In the next part of the conversation I’ve been sharing, with David Reed from Improvise For Real, we dive into two more of their inspiring and thought-provoking quotes, covering that question and more!

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David: Okay. The next one I see here is: “we need to get back to our original desire to what drew us to musical improvisation in the first place.”

Now that is nice because it’s quite neutral, and so it really invites us to decide for ourselves what that means to us.

So in other words, if you take away all the context and all of the, you know, particular views or attitudes I might have about it, if we just take that sentence on its own, I think it’s something that no one could disagree with.

I think we would all agree that we need to get back to our original desire to what drew us to musical improvisation in the first place.

I think we can all agree that we should never lose sight of what it is we’re actually wanting to do here. And just with that as as preamble, I would love to know what that means to you.

Christopher: To me, what it immediately brings to mind is, the centrality of motivation for adult music learners in particular. And I say adult for a couple of reasons, partly because younger music learners tend to be in some kind of structured system that kind of makes sure they have their lesson every week and they do it for a few years at school or whatever.

And partly because adults have particular psychological, I don’t wanna say “baggage”, but perspectives that they’ve gathered over the years. And we really find that almost more than anything else, what matters is keeping up that motivation and that enthusiasm and that passion for music learning.

And for us at Musical U, we are always bringing people back to this exercise we call the Big Picture Vision exercise. And it’s all about setting a very clear vision for the kind of musician you want to be five years from now.

And to us that puts in place a kind of “North Star” for people, without which they can wander around aimlessly. They can get stuck, they can get frustrated. They can lose their self-confidence or their self-esteem in music, and they can feel like it’s just not worth continuing.

And this is why, sadly, 95% of people who pick up an instrument as an adult have quit within a couple of years. When you have that North Star and it’s written in a way and created in a way that really deeply resonates with you, and as you put it here, ties to that original desire, the genuine desire. Not all of the you should learn this, or you should learn that, or that this YouTube tutorial said this last week, but really what got you excited about it in the first place and got you to go into the music shop or go online and buy your first instrument, which as an adult is quite an intimidating thing to do.

When it’s based on that, it just becomes such a powerful driving force that you can keep coming back to, to kind of reset your direction and reinvigorate your passion for the process of becoming that musician you want to be. Mm,

David: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All beautiful thoughts and very well, well articulated. Well explained.

Yeah. I mean, I think that it can be taken in a very innocent way as, as something that’s so self-evident that you know that it’s just common sense, right?

But it’s an invitation. It’s an invitation to honour whatever it is that you wanted to do, whatever it is that truly drew you.

In my case, I was talking about musical improvisation, but we could broaden it to practicing music in general.

But whatever it is that that meant to you, there’s some reason why you wanted to do. And all I’m saying is don’t lose sight of that reason. Don’t lose sight of that dream. Don’t get so caught up in what you should learn and what you shouldn’t do, and my teacher says, I need to get better at this and I don’t have good time and I gotta… whatever.

All that stuff is fine, but you are the ultimate and absolute power in your life. This is your life. You get to do what you wanna do and whatever it is that you were hungry for or that you dreamed of, you know, when you, when you first got that idea to go to the music shop and buy an instrument where you first wanted to learn to improvise.

You’re the only one that can keep all these activities on track, moving toward that goal in a real way, not an abstract way, but a real way. And it takes a lot of correction. There’s a lot of course correction, and the student is the only one who can do it. The teachers can’t do it for you.

You’re the one that has to honour yourself and honour whatever it is you dream of doing in music, and make sure that we’re all serving you in moving in that direction.

Christopher: Sure. Well, I feel like we could go on for days, if not weeks, but let’s do one more, shall we? What’s the next one?

David: Okay. So the next one that I’d like to talk about with you: Your real relationship with music is inside of you, and this is where your most profound discoveries will take place. And I can start, or you can start. What do you prefer?

Christopher: You go ahead.

David: Okay. So I think that because we make music with instruments and because some of the concepts that people want to teach us are written down, we often have our first experiences with music, kind of managing a lot of things that are outside of us. You’re playing this big clunky instrument. You’re looking at sheet music on a music stand. Maybe you’re listening to a backing track. Maybe you’re watching a video at a website somewhere.

But there’s all this stuff that’s outside of you. And you know, in a very deep and kind of unconscious way, there’s a story that’s being kind of etched into your mind there, which is that music takes place outside of you, the music that you wanna express is outside of you. It’s somewhere in that sheet music. It’s somewhere in that theory book. You know? It’s somewhere in this instrument.

And that’s not true at all. That’s not true at all. And so a lot of people have this idea. They feel very small, you know, because they don’t understand the relative importance of these things. They’ve got kind of the whole thing out of balance. They think that all the value is outside of them.

And this is like deep psychological stuff. You could say that this goes even to our identity. It’s not even just about music, but that there’s nothing inside me that is inherently perfect and beautiful and valuable and worthy, right?

That I have to somehow acquire those things. And none of that is true. So for, for example, people will often, beginning musicians will often see the world as “Well, when I listen to music, I feel this deep, intense pleasure. There is something in those sounds that just touches my soul, and I just wanna be a musician, I wanna play”, right?

But then on the other hand “I’m not a musician. I don’t know anything because I haven’t gone through the books yet and I don’t have the sheet music”, you know, whatever. All their skills, they don’t have together yet. All this stuff that’s outside of them, they see all the barriers and the difficulties there, and so they feel they don’t have anything.

Now, what I’m trying to say is you already have almost everything that intense pleasure that you feel when you’re listening to the music. That’s your genius right there. And that’s everything. That is everything.

What you need to learn in order to be able to channel that through your music and give that same gift to other people is so easy to learn because you don’t need to master our entire musical system! A couple of chords and a few notes and you can connect to exactly that pleasure that you feel in the music.

And so that’s, that was, that was what I was trying to talk about there.

Christopher: Oh, I love that. I, I almost don’t want to add anything cause you put that so well!

I think the interesting part is how easy that makes it to see how things go so wrong, right?

Because as we’ve talked about, this inner understanding, this ability to audiate or hear in your mind, to feel what the notes are gonna sound like before you play them is just missing from how people learn music 99% of the time.

And so if you imagine that happening and you’re there with your instrument, no one’s ever shown you how to feel the notes or hear the notes or imagine in your head what it’s gonna sound like. All you’re left with is “I’ll press the buttons and then I’ll find out how it sounds”.

And so it’s immediately that external thing. You know, I press the buttons, it creates the music out there. I can enjoy it or not. I can be happy that I got it right or not. But there’s no sense that the music is coming from inside you in a really deep and meaningful way.

And I should, you know, add a footnote there that okay, there is a level of expression and intonation and playing with feeling that can come out in interpreting written music for sure, absolutely.

And that’s the one spot where a lot of musicians do find some fulfillment and some sense of self-expression.

But what we are talking about is, you know, if you are truly trying to bring out your own music from inside you, you’ve gotta have that inner piece in place to have any chance.

And I love that this quote really puts the spotlight on that and says that relationship is inside you and your role as a music learner is to figure out how to bring that out into the world.

David: Yeah. And thank you for expanding the conversation to include people who play from written sheet music, because I think the same thing applies.

That even if you’re playing the notes on the page, you know, from the beautiful and brilliant and and deeply sensitive people who have dedicated their entire lives to playing classical music, it is not the same thing to hear one of them play those notes on the page or to hear me stumble through those notes on a page.

And it’s not just about playing the notes correctly. It’s about the human emotion that’s transmitted through the playing of those notes, right?

And so that’s another place where, even if that’s your art form, I would still argue that your greatest asset in that art form is still your own ability to feel all those subtle sensations and to enjoy them.

Even if you’re interpreting Mozart, you’re not gonna be able to do it just following the advice of your coach. When a coach says “play this note louder”, I’m sorry, but that’s just not gonna cut it. You have to be able to hear and feel in your own body exactly how much louder you wanna play that note.

And that’s just to pick one simple example, but you just can’t… Imagine playing a classical music concert and you’ve got those ear protectors on that they use in the airports on the runway, so you can’t hear a thing. It doesn’t matter how much, how great your coaching is and how much you know, you’re not gonna be able to play that music and make it really sing, and touch people’s hearts.

And so that’s another example of what we’re talking about, that your greatest resource as a musician, whether you’re improvising or whether you’re playing written notes on a page, really your greatest asset is this love of music that you have inside of you.

And so, if you’ve been at, if you’ve been drawn to music learning, if you are at this point in your life, you know, taking real steps and making an effort to have a music practice in your life, I’m just trying to say that that’s the magic right there. And that what we need to do in the music learning is to, is to help you tap into that. It’s not to replace that with a bunch of other rules and ideas about what you should play. It’s to enable you to connect that place of deep joy and pleasure and intuitive understanding of music, that you follow music and you feel the emotions. And to connect that to your instruments, so that you’re able to also express all of that on your instrument, to allow other people to feel all those same things.

Christopher: Absolutely. Perfect!

Well, David, I regretfully, I think need to draw things to a close there. We’ve only covered half of the quotes and that’s exciting ‘cause it means I’m gonna try and tempt you back for a part two conversation and we can look at the others someday soon.

Tell our audience where can they go if they want to know more about Improvise For Real and the things we’ve talked about today.

David: Yeah, improviseforreal.com. You know, that’s the single place. We have tried to create a complete learning system based on the philosophy that we’re talking about, which is to lay out the raw materials of music in an organised way with the activities, every step of the way that allow you to really get into these things and get to know them and gain mastery and learn to express your own music with them and find your voice.

But that journey is quite a long one, and so you can actually go from this very simplistic kind of practicing or environment that I’m describing now to you. You can get all the way up to playing over those jazz standards. It’s just a matter of having somebody lay out the journey for you. But also kind of getting, you know, a method that aligns with your values and that gives you the opportunity to really get to know all these sounds for yourself, learn to recognise them by ear while you’re going through that path, integrating that with your ability to express these sounds, connecting that with your own creativity and the music that you choose to express with these sounds.

That’s what we’re trying to do and people can learn all about it at improviseforreal.com.

Christopher: Tremendous. Well, it’s always such a pleasure to get the chance to talk with you, David. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today.

David: Thank you very much, Christopher. It’s always a pleasure, truly, with you.

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Christopher: That was such a fun conversation!

We published it in four parts, so if you missed any of the previous episodes, I’ll put links in the shownotes, and you can go back and catch up.

As you will have gathered, that was the final part of that conversation that David and I had a little while ago, but we actually only covered half of their quotes from Instagram! So if you’d like us to get together again and dive into the others, do leave a comment on this episode or send an email to us at hello@musicalitynow.com, and let us know.

That’s it for this one. Cheers! And go make some music!

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